OPEN THREAD 20191127

Basically, all legal free speech is allowed. We will assist the authorities in dealing with illegal speech. You are each other’s moderators. Have fun. And don’t forget to MAGA at nuclear levels.

Citizen U

Day 21 – SCANDIUM.

33 thoughts on “OPEN THREAD 20191127

  1. Okey-dokey…..things to say about scandium…..

    Well, it wasn’t isolated as a pure metal until 1937, and worldwide production is about 11 tons a year. It can be used as a dopant to make super-strong aluminum alloys — in fact, the alloy Al20Li20Mg10Sc20Ti30 is as strong as titanium, light as aluminium, and hard as ceramic — and might be found in very tiny aerospace applications (the price of Scandium fluctuates between $4,000 and $20,000 per kilo).

    It appears in the same column as yttrium [incidentally, yttrium, terbium, erbium, and ytterbium are all named after the village of Ytterby, Sweden, and its rare earths mine*], and is frequently considered a “rare earth” — and, like so many of them, it’s not particularly rare…’s about the 35th most encountered element in the earth’s crust (about the same as cobalt). But, like the other rare earths, having the ore in your hand and having a refined sample in your hand are vastly different things. Rare earths frequently have weird optical properties, and scandium-doped lasers are a thing.

    It has ONE natural isotope — 45. Scientists have managed to generate thirteen other isotopes between 36 and 60, with the longest half-life to date being 83.8 days (46) and the majority having half-lives of less than two minutes. If you happen to meet some (which is extremely unlikely because there’s not that much around and it ain’t cheap), the chances are that it’s 45.

    * I just had to share this from Wikipedia, even though it’s about yttrium and not scandium:
    “In 1787, army lieutenant and part-time chemist Carl Axel Arrhenius found a heavy black rock in an old quarry near the Swedish village of Ytterby (now part of the Stockholm Archipelago). Thinking that it was an unknown mineral containing the newly discovered element tungsten,he named it ytterbite and sent samples to various chemists for analysis.

    Johan Gadolin at the University of Åbo identified a new oxide (or “earth”) in Arrhenius’ sample in 1789, and published his completed analysis in 1794. Anders Gustaf Ekeberg confirmed the identification in 1797 and named the new oxide yttria. In the decades after Antoine Lavoisier developed the first modern definition of chemical elements, it was believed that earths could be reduced to their elements, meaning that the discovery of a new earth was equivalent to the discovery of the element within, which in this case would have been yttrium.

    In 1843, Carl Gustaf Mosander found that samples of yttria contained three oxides: white yttrium oxide (yttria), yellow terbium oxide (confusingly, this was called ‘erbia’ at the time) and rose-colored erbium oxide (called ‘terbia’ at the time). A fourth oxide, ytterbium oxide, was isolated in 1878 by Jean Charles Galissard de Marignac. New elements were later isolated from each of those oxides, and each element was named, in some fashion, after Ytterby, the village near the quarry where they were found. In the following decades, seven other new metals were discovered in “Gadolin’s yttria”. Since yttria was found to be a mineral and not an oxide, Martin Heinrich Klaproth renamed it gadolinite in honor of Gadolin. “

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Just to go back and emphasize this — eleven new elements were discovered from that black rock over more than a hundred years, four of which were named after Ytterby. It’s one thing to say, “oh, yeah, I’ve touched terbium — I held that black rock in my hand”…….and it’s quite another to have seen ingot of pure terbium.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. I have in fact seen pure samples of all of those “rare earth” elements.

        There’s a company that makes “coins” (technically not coins because they don’t have a denomination) out of a lot of different elements ( and they’ve pretty much done all the metals except for a couple of extremely hard (as in brittle) ones like osmium, and the kaboom-in-water ones in the left hand column.

        In many cases the coin comes sealed in a glass ampoule. More about this below…

        Liked by 3 people

  2. Smith & Wesson makes their lightest and smallest J-frame 5-shot revolvers out of Scandium alloy, like the S&W 340PD, which also includes a lighter weight titanium cylinder.

    The M&P 340PD weighs 11.8 ounces, vs. the regular (unidentified) alloy Model 642 or 442 (both .38 special +P only) which weigh 14.4 oz and 14.6 oz. respectively.

    This link is to the Model 340PD, which is rated for both .38 special +P and .357 magnum. Apparently the stronger (and lighter) Scandium alloy allows for the more powerful round. From everything I’ve read, most people don’t enjoy firing .357 magnum rounds out of a revolver this light, as it can be painful:

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Nice contribution — and an interesting spin from S&W’s marketing department.

      I’ll drop this in here — . Key quote: “The model 329 PD has a “Scandium AirLite” frame, which is in fact an alloy of aluminum and scandium. When combined with aluminum, scandium (which costs ten times as much as gold by weight), forms an alloy that is lighter than titanium and as much as three times stronger than ordinary aluminum.”

      So why is this called “scandium alloy”? It’s not like scandium is the primary ingredient. A more accurate term would be “scandium-strengthened aluminum alloy”. I’m thinking these guys had originally applied to the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation but were turned away as “not a good fit”.

      I would have likely never known about this product if you hadn’t highlighted it here. Thanks for bringing the mention.

      Incidentally, I thought I was dealing with exotic materials when I was looking at a Kimber Stainless Target II.

      Liked by 3 people

        1. I think you’re supposed to riff off of them… you did. Into handguns. I tagged back into metallurgy, but offered a further handgun advance.

          It’s like the Monty Python bit in Life of Brian — you’re supposed to haggle.

          Liked by 2 people

      1. “So why is this called “scandium alloy”? It’s not like scandium is the primary ingredient. A more accurate term would be “scandium-strengthened aluminum alloy”.”


        They just make (mostly) good guns… they probably never even met the marketing department guys 😁

        Liked by 3 people

  3. Wolfmoon, I found this article very interesting this morning. It was linked on
    It ties a lot of things I already know and new information together in new ways with Q. I am surprised I have not run across his writings before. I have found over the years that I am given new sources after I have been prepared to receive them.
    You may already be familiar with his work. I think his information fits in perfectly with the U Tree.

    QAnon = Antidote to the CIA-MK Ultra Matrix – Part I
    Ellis Washington | November 26, 2019

    Liked by 3 people

      1. I should note the similarity between an earlier comment of mine where I noted that we have no direct means of perceiving reality, and this from the linked article:

        >> [Matrix Movie excerpt #4] “What is real? How do you define real? If you’re talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.” (Morpheus to Neo)

        Liked by 2 people

  4. So, yes, I am still reading here even though I was warned off from day 1 (after I first posted). I scan the articles & then read some of them articles ever several days as I have time, learn much & enjoy, and occasionally scan the comments for the longer comments that are actually discussions. Why? I learn so much! So interesting.

    And wolfmoon1776, you keep saying how you will reserve some of your best stuff for posts here…with that kind of statement announced hard to stay away for what I might miss! Good insights about smoking on that one article and the train story in the comments. Classic – felt like sitting on some comfortable leather couches in a lodge in the wilderness as shown in treehouse pictures on the beginning of open threads, drinking Good scotch and have high quality conversation.

    Yes, I know, cats, curiosity, self control, discipline….

    I told my husband, “but I don’t get involved in the comments or even read many of the comments so stay out of that sort of thing and the rough talk. I just come for the articles, to read the content, not look at the “expressive language”* &/or smut talk, etc.” Well, that Really made me sound like I was doing something naughty! ha (how many times have we heard that about certain magazines – just read them for the articles…sure! ha). I know how to scroll quickly, tune out and ignore as well as recognize some whole discussions that aren’t for me.

    Anyway, enjoying the articles and some comments. Just confirms treepers and many conservatives are a pretty smart bunch from whom I learn so much. Diverse and informed.

    Funny how chemistry actually leads to so many topics, including political issues of the day.

    *(and, no, that is not judging, just classifying for personal taste – I have worked in male dominated, non professional & professional fields and worked around men enough that I know that is just how some talk/express themselves. And my children learned certain words from me by accident v. their friends or media so I am not a stranger to the blue words/vocab that I don’t really enjoy, if that makes sense. Not trying to inhibit or criticize!)

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Thanks for those comments!

      Yes – I do want to put some “good stuff” here – that was my plan – and then so much unfortunate disruption. But I think we are getting back on track, so hopefully soon.

      Liked by 3 people

  5. More on scandium…

    I mentioned those element coins. I used to own a set (they got stolen), so I’ve not only seen but held samples of all the so-called “rare earth” elements, with the exception of promethium, which has no long-lived stable isotopes and pretty much has to be made in nuclear reactors.

    The “rare earth” elements, broadly defined, are scandium, yttrium, and everything in that first row tucked in at the bottom of the table…lanthanum through lutetium.

    Chemists dislike calling them “rare earths” (because some of them aren’t particularly rare, being about as common as tin or copper), so now they use the term “lanthanides.” But this term specifically does NOT include scandium and yttrium, because it applies only to the row tucked below the table. The fact that yttrium and scandium are always found with the lanthanides is lost by making that distinction.

    The lanthanide row, plus the actinides, is tucked in at the bottom, basically, so the table will fit reasonably well on a normal-proportioned sheet of paper. It’s possible to actually put those rows into the body of the periodic table and get a very wide format.

    I just did a search for “wide format periodic table” images and got NOTHING but variations on the regular format with the lanthanides and actinides excerpted at the bottom! So I am going to have to link to images in Wikipedia (which won’t let you just embed images). So do a right select and open in a new tab:

    You’ll notice in that one, Sc and Y, the top of “group 3,” (the third column in the normal collapsed view) are immediately to the left of the big break, and above lanthanum and actinium.

    But there’s another possible way to do it:

    Note here that Sc and Y are to the RIGHT of the big break, above lutetium (Lu) and lawrencium (Lr).

    Chemists are currently arguing over which of these makes the most sense. It’s sort of the chemical version of “is Pluto rightfully considered a planet?”

    So which of these make the most sense? Do scandium and yttrium more closely resemble lanthanum or lutetium? Some chemists say the former; they’re looking at how the electrons actually stack up in the orbitals (which in many places in the transition elements doesn’t follow the expected sequence). Others look at other factors, and say that “group 3” (scandium and yttrium) should also include lutetium and lawrencium.

    My take, which is worth exactly what you’ve paid for it (less, actually, since reading this adds minutely to your electric bill):

    It turns out the lanthanide metals, plus scandium and yttrium, are commonly grouped into “light” and “heavy” variants by the people who actually mine and refine the things for a living. The light ones tend to appear together in ores, and so do the heavy ones; the heavy ones tend to be less common because they were more likely to sink to the earth’s core when the earth was molten. The light ones tend to be La-Eu (57-63) and the heavy ones Gd-Lu and scandium and yttrium. (Gd can sometimes show up with the light ones.) That suggests to me that scandium and yttrium “belong” over lutetium. Another thing that suggests it to me is that the elements lanthanum through europium, when I had those coins, were in glass ampoules. In air with any humidity at all those metals will turn into piles of, basically, lanthanide rust within months, usually days. Gadolinium (#64) and onwards, won’t. (Gadolinium will tarnish badly, so that company now puts it in an ampoule too.) Scandium and yttrium also do NOT need to be in the ampoules, so that suggests a similarity too.

    So I favor putting scandium and yttrium over lutetium and lawrencium. A collapsed table should show Lanthanum through Ytterbium at the bottom, and then lutetium in the square with the asterisk in it–not lanthanum!

    But my opinion is valueless to actual trained chemists (I don’t even play one on TV), so we’ll see what they decide.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. “But my opinion is valueless to actual trained chemists (I don’t even play one on TV), so we’ll see what they decide.”

      Don’t be so sure! 😉

      More openly, it is my contention that we are not just the NEWS now – WE ARE SCIENCE NOW.

      Yes. The people who were FORCED OUT OF SCIENCE so that a kind of fake science could move forward with an agenda, have proven how elite science simply can’t be trusted.


      Damn. There’s ANOTHER column I don’t have time for today.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. In all seriousness, I *know* I do not have the background to have an informed opinion on this particular issue. I was commenting yesterday on how I really know nothing about the chemistry of metals; I have to infer things from youtube videos and Wikipedia. (Besides, science is about a LOT more than just memorizing a lot of interesting information about how the physical world works.)

        Well, as long as we’re in the cuss-all-you-want tree:

        (That’s Richard Dawkins, and the person who busts out laughing is Neil DeGrasse Tyson.)

        Liked by 3 people

    2. Great comment!

      Sorry to hear that your coins were stolen. It’s sad that we live among barbarians — they probably thought they were monetary coins that they could take to a coin dealer and exchange for easy money. I doubt they appreciated how cool they were.

      Liked by 2 people

  6. Apparently, there is a melt-down going on right now, because Trump tweeted a picture of himself as Rocky Balboa:

    I keep saying, liberals have NO SENSE OF HUMOR. It is their chief fault, in my opinion. No humor means you take yourself so seriously, and in such high regard, that you can’t see when something is funny. It’s arrogance at its worst.

    The Washington Post tweeted:
    Trump tweets doctored photo of his head on Sylvester Stallone’s body, unclear why

    Carpe responded:
    Replying to
    The reason will become clear if you read your own headline and article from the perspective of person who isn’t insane with rage.

    What the fuck is wrong with people? It’s APT and it’s FUNNY!

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Think Sylvester lives in the area of Mar a Lago…or at least he did at one time. I hope his personal politics allows him to get a real kick out of this. The old saying…keep them coming back …certainly applies with POTUS as people eagerly watch what’s coming next!
      I know there’s a lot of symbolism/hidden message (in addition to just being a great troll!)…hope we actually find out soon.

      Liked by 5 people

        1. responding to T3’s link to fibonacci and bees……………

          I am amazed ! Thanks for posting that T3…

          Finding no relationship between Scandium and bees, but did find this .pdf titled

          The Radiochemistry
          of the Rare Earths,
          Scandium, Yttrium,
          and Actinium

          Lars Fredrik Nilson and his team detected this element in the minerals euxenite and gadolinite in 1879. … He named the element scandium, from the Latin Scandia meaning “Scandinavia”.

          That bees all I could find on the chemical element of atomic number 21

          And Teagan, iirc Sylvester is a Republican

          Bet you thought I was going to say Epstein didn’t kill himself, huh?

          Liked by 2 people

    1. “Sometimes your creation becomes what it wants to be, not what you intended.” ~ T3 down Thread

      Indeed T3 ,
      I messed around with clay for a few years… learned early on NOT to decide what I was going to make, “the pot has a mind all its own.” And then there’s the kiln… the firing of ……………………………… never comes out the colors or even finish you planned. Now, I’m sure there are more talented potters than myself, even professionals where their Will is crafted… but not in my hands !

      Liked by 2 people

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